Article 54153 of talk.origins: Path: klaava!news.funet.fi!sunic!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!scn2!tjt From: tjt@scn1.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Thompson) Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: On the "Genesis Flood" Date: 1 Feb 1994 02:54:07 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Lines: 118 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ikg8f$q2h@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tjt@scn1.jpl.nasa.gov NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.149.9.2 First, a paragraph out of Whitcomb & Morris, "Genesis Flood", page 327: "Thus, it seems reasonable to attribute the formations of the crystalline basement rocks, and perhaps some of the Pre-Cambrian non-fossiliferous sedimentaries, to the Creation period, though later substantially modified by the tectonic upheavals of the Dekuge period. The fossil-bearing strata were apparently laid down in large measure during the Flood, with apparent sequences attributed not to evolution but rather to hydrodynamic selectivity, ecological habitats, and differential mobility and strength of the various creatures." ----- Now, this description of how the flood systematically distributed fossils around is replete with silliness. I could say a lot, but somebody else beat me to it, and probably did a better job than I would have anyway. So, here is what Kenneth R. Miller had to say, in direct response to this paragraph, in the book "Science and Creationism", edited by Ashley Montagu, pages 53-54. I quote at some length, but there is a lot to say ... ----- "More simply put, the fossil record is an illusion. It was formed in 300 days by the Flood of Noah. All animals and plants were not merely created, but were created side by side. The flood, an unlucky accident, sorted their corpses into strata which gave the appearance of evolution. The American creationist movement does not merely suggest creation as a plausible mechanism for the changes among living organisms observable in the fossils of the past. It claims a simultaneous creation event for all living "kinds", followed by a flood which serendipitously sorted them into layers which look like an evolutionary sequence. "The 'flood geology' demanded by this model has indeed been considered by science and was dismissed by even 'creationist' geologists and naturalists such as Cuvier more than a century ago. The world's geological features are not explicable in terms of a single catastrophic flood, and neither is the sequence of organisms found in the fossil record.The contradictions and fallacies and weaknesses of flood geology are almost too numerous to mention, but one point is worth mentioning. Mammals occupy virtually every corner of this planet. Some are very large, some are extremely small, some are quick, some slow, some burrow into the ground, some swim the ocean, some climb into the highest trees. They differ enormously, as Henry Morris might say, in terms of their 'hydrodynamic' properties (shape and weight), 'ecologic habitats', 'differential mobility and strength'. Yet, not a single mammalian fossil appears until the very last few strata from the creationist 'flood' were laid down. And, when they do appear, with incredibly bad luck, the fossils arrive in just the right sequence to piece together imaginary evolutionary sequences in a dozen different families. Why is it that the first mammal to appear is the most reptilelike of all subsequent mammals, and just happens to appear just after the most mammallike of all reptiles? Shouldn't a single family of moles near the shore have been trapped in the rampaging waters and fossilized in the Cambrian period? Shouldn't swimming mammals have been fossilized alongside the jawless and jawed fishes in the early stages of the flood? And why doesn't a single human fossil appear anywhere in the hundreds of millions of years of life represented in the fossil record, until the last 3 or 4 million years? "The flood geology model is so hopelessly contradicted by the fact of the fossil record that creationists will avoid revealing it at all costs. Added to the impossible difficulties of the fossil record, the creationist must also develop a method which would precisely sort radioactive isotopes so that the 'apparent' ages of the various geologic periods could be accounted for. Flood geology represents the desperate attempts of the scientific creationists to reconcile the doctrine of a single, week-long creation event with the facts of the geologic record. Against such a backdrop, Duane Gish's boast that the fossil record is 'remarkably in accord with creation' rings hollow indeed." ----- Miller makes his point strongly, but I want to add a detail. There are, for instance, many different species of trilobite, and some can be distinguished from others only by the number of elements in the compound eye. It doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to realize that that kind of small morphological difference, is going to have very littl effect on relative drag coefficients. Indeed, the effect may not even be measureable. Yet, these species of trilobyte are sorted into seperate, sometimes adjacent, layers with 100% efficiency. No flood model imaginable can account for that. The Morris of Whitcomb & Morris is Henry M. Morris of the Institute for Creation Research. Henry Morris has a Ph.D. in civil engineering, from the University of Minnesota, specializing in hydraulics and fluid mechanics. Now, it also doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to figure out that anyone with a Ph.D., from a reputable state university, addressing his field of specialization, should not, under normal circumstances, say anything so stupid as Morris in fact does. Is he an idiot? A liar? A fool? Some convolution of all 3? Something else? Why should I, or anyone else, ever believe anything this man says, ever again? ----- As you can see, it doesn't matter whether the water fell down or poured out of the ground, or whatever. There was no flood either way. However, for a detailed description of flood geology from the "water came up" point of view, I suggest the book "Science and Earth History, the Evolution/Creation Controversy", by Arthur N. Strahler, Prometheus Books, 1987. This book covers all geological aspects of creationism, and is worth reading for anyone of either persuasion. --- ------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Thompson, Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Board of Directors, Los Angeles Astronomical Society. Vice President, Mount Wilson Observatory Association. INTERnet/BITnet: tjt@scn2.jpl.nasa.gov NSI/DECnet: jplsc8::tim SCREAMnet: YO!! TIM!! GPSnet: 118:10:22.85 W by 34:11:58.27 N